Posts by Franklin Massey

110

A Concerned Elder Speaks

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

a lot of talk has centered around information dispensed at the recent km schools.

many brothers feel there is a "tightening up" taking place.

i had a recent experience that you may find interesting.. after the meeting i was working with our cobe on some congregation tasks when out of nowhere he said, "have you looked up any extra information about higher education since the km school?

Franklin Massey

This conversation is getting much better, Finger. We needed clarity and reference on your position and you are providing it nicely. Thanks.

That is the thinking I was brought up with as we lived in the final part of the last days.

Active JWs are still be told this same thing, but for many, it is becoming less and less real to them.

If a JW no longer believes he is living in the final part he should leave in my opinion. I did.

I'm sure you are familiar with the posters on this board who, after weighing the outcomes, decide to stay in for family/social reasons. For some, it's just not that easy. Also, consider those who allow for room in understanding JW doctrine. Lets say that they love 99% of what the religion has to offer, but just don't know of the end is really so near. Should they throw the baby out with the bath water?

You made a bold choice and now you are free, so to speak. You are to be commended. It's hard for some to do what you did, or maybe the time just isn't right. Either way, as we both agree, its a personal choice and the point of the thread was about the GBs powerful influence in the personal matters of JWs.

43

Do you have a Facebook Page? and if so

by DeeDubs in

what do you have on the info page for religion?.

Franklin Massey

Here's one I saw that made me want to vomit:

Religious Views	same as political views

Political Views	Jehovah pwns all

110

A Concerned Elder Speaks

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

a lot of talk has centered around information dispensed at the recent km schools.

many brothers feel there is a "tightening up" taking place.

i had a recent experience that you may find interesting.. after the meeting i was working with our cobe on some congregation tasks when out of nowhere he said, "have you looked up any extra information about higher education since the km school?

Franklin Massey

Finger, you should be as clear as your last post more often. Thanks for elaborating. This stood out to me:

I also think there is a wider question of as a christian how much one trusts God to provide and where one draws the line with needs and wants.

Agreed. But that's between a person and God. Not a person and you. Not a person and the GB. You are hung up on higher education but how far are you willing to carry your logic? If someone gets a new car, are they showing that they don't think the end is near? What if they purchase cable television? What about a new coat or shoes? Heck, if the end is so near, let's just stop paying our bills and ride it out until Armageddon. It's a slippery slope. Part of making informed choices involves examining the past to look for what has worked and what hasn't. Unfortunately, in the WT Organization, many have done with their entire lives what you suggest should be done with college. That is, drop everything because none of it matters since the end is so near. That has proven to be disastrous for many JWs. You draw your line. I'll draw mine. But don't be so quick to judge the manifestation of one's relationship and reliance on God by outward appearance.

God could use stones.

Sounds like a good solution. Sure would save everyone from the headaches of fleshing out these conscience related issues. wouldn't it?

110

A Concerned Elder Speaks

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

a lot of talk has centered around information dispensed at the recent km schools.

many brothers feel there is a "tightening up" taking place.

i had a recent experience that you may find interesting.. after the meeting i was working with our cobe on some congregation tasks when out of nowhere he said, "have you looked up any extra information about higher education since the km school?

Franklin Massey

Mis, you clever son-of-a... I picked 1969 as the year to consider for a reason. As I wouldn't have believed it until someone showed it to me, but that was the year the GB printed articles stating that young people in school would never get old.

110

A Concerned Elder Speaks

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

a lot of talk has centered around information dispensed at the recent km schools.

many brothers feel there is a "tightening up" taking place.

i had a recent experience that you may find interesting.. after the meeting i was working with our cobe on some congregation tasks when out of nowhere he said, "have you looked up any extra information about higher education since the km school?

Franklin Massey

Pirata, At the Kingdom Ministry School I attended they said the Elders qualifications would be reviewed.They gave a list of requirements, that if met, would not mean ineligibility for an Elder (ie. person going has spiritual goals, attends meetings, regular in ministry, etc).

I acknowledged that with this statement right before your post: One thing that should be mentioned in all fairness is that an elder will not be immediately deleted for sending his kid to school. It will vary by locality but all that is promised as of now is a review of qualifications. If the review goes well and the brother is decided to be in good standing he will remain in his position. Perhaps your school was bit less intense than ours.

Also, some go to higher education to prove the Governing Body wrong...that must have been in the outline because that was said at my school too. Then followed by "Don't think that you can find away around the Society's direction." As if to say, "We know some of you will look for loopholes and excuses."

Finger, I'm not sure of your motives but I'll dignify your post with one response to this: Either you believe the end is near or you dont and if you dont then you do not support the view of the GB.The proximity of the end is relative. It's always nearer than the day before, isn't it? One cannot forgo taking care of their family's needs as is instructed in the scriptures: "If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." - 1 Tim 5:8. In addition, a Christian does not ultimately answer to any group of men, however powerful they claim to be. A Christian answers to a higher power and is willing to choose their course based on that relationship. So if a group of self-appointed men believe the end is near, that's their business. If they try to force you to show that you believe the end is near by doing whatever they tell you, they've crossed the line.

110

A Concerned Elder Speaks

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

a lot of talk has centered around information dispensed at the recent km schools.

many brothers feel there is a "tightening up" taking place.

i had a recent experience that you may find interesting.. after the meeting i was working with our cobe on some congregation tasks when out of nowhere he said, "have you looked up any extra information about higher education since the km school?

Franklin Massey

Finger, we're not talking about people who are chasing big dreams and fortune. We're talking about sincere spiritual brothers who are having a hard time serving their congregations because of the overwhelming pressures of a tough economic system. They look back on the choices they made and hope to help their children avoid some of the mistakes that they have made. For many JWs, the lack of education has forced them into menial jobs that don't pay the bills. When looking for a job, applications and resumes without degrees get passed over in favor of those with more education. That's the reality that we live with. It's an expensive world, even for those of simple means. Rather than work 60 hours a week at a low wage, a degree would allow someone to work 35 hours a week at a much higher wage, leaving more time for spiritual activity and less time worrying about how to keep the lights on.

110

A Concerned Elder Speaks

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

a lot of talk has centered around information dispensed at the recent km schools.

many brothers feel there is a "tightening up" taking place.

i had a recent experience that you may find interesting.. after the meeting i was working with our cobe on some congregation tasks when out of nowhere he said, "have you looked up any extra information about higher education since the km school?

Franklin Massey

"Also generally after KM school is finished, the branch will send a "recap" letter to the BOE's."

The elders mentioned in the account above were hoping that the follow-up letter would downplay the hardline stance presented at the school. Perhaps headquarters would hear of the murmurings and realize they need to do some damage control. If that happened, it would probably be one of those, "Some brothers attending the school misunderstood the loving spiritual direction dispensed..."

"It's like they WANT fewer elders and servants."

You're close. They want obedient followers. Any brother that would question their decisions or have complaint against policy is a risk. It's possible that they would view such men as an acceptable loss.

Are they becoming more extreme? I thought the latest was no 4 year university, or living on campus, etc.

That is the latest published direction available to all who get the WT magazine. You'll notice, as was mentioned above, that the assemblies and conventions have taken a more negative stand on higher education. The KM school went a step further. At our school, after telling the brothers about the qualifications review, the speaker said something like, "Don't think that you can find away around the Society's direction." That comment was one that really upset our CoBoE (thanks Mis for the correct abbreviation).

Just out of curiosity, what is the WTBS going to do if half their elders quit or get forced out over this?

The sad part is that a lot of these affected brothers will not respectfully stand up for their rights. They will do as told.

One thing that should be mentioned in all fairness is that an elder will not be immediately deleted for sending his kid to school. It will vary by locality but all that is promised as of now is a review of qualifications. If the review goes well and the brother is decided to be in good standing he will remain in his position. The problem here is the imposed threat. Many will not even want to risk having to undergo the review. Therefore, the fear tactic keeps them under control. No college for the kids, no loss of elder, Big Brother wins.

37

My Mother-In-Law is seeing the light!

by brotherdan in

jw
friends

i posted this on another thread because i was unable to start a new one, but now i can.

here is the post:.

i have been corresponding with my mil as many of you know.

Franklin Massey

I would suggest that for each issue, doctrine, scandal, or question she is interested in - that she take each thing one at a time. First, research it secularly. Get an understanding of the issue and the arguments. Then, go back to the WT Library and research it through the WT lens. This worked incredibly well for me. On several issues, the WT explanations fold under the overwhelming weight of evidence to their contrary. When you take a clear, well informed, well documented, well rounded argument and then hold it up to a flimsy, stretched, one-sided, narrow argument, the results are inevitable. The truth will shine through.

31

Hello Everyone!!!

by Crank!!! in

jw
friends

this is my very first post here at jwn.

i have been "lurking" here for a few months as i have slowly faded over the past year.

so i figured it was time to become a full blown jw opposer, and i tell you it couldnt feel better!.

Franklin Massey

Welcome Crank.

Sab, I like your style. "Don't become a JW opposer, just become someone who speaks out against injustice!"

110

A Concerned Elder Speaks

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

a lot of talk has centered around information dispensed at the recent km schools.

many brothers feel there is a "tightening up" taking place.

i had a recent experience that you may find interesting.. after the meeting i was working with our cobe on some congregation tasks when out of nowhere he said, "have you looked up any extra information about higher education since the km school?

Franklin Massey

A lot of talk has centered around information dispensed at the recent KM schools. Many brothers feel there is a "tightening up" taking place. I had a recent experience that you may find interesting.

After the meeting I was working with our CoBE on some congregation tasks when out of nowhere he said, "Have you looked up any extra information about higher education since the KM school?" I hadn't. I had been through all of the recently published info within the last year and I heard enough at the school to get the strong point they were trying to make. I have kept my stronger opinions about this matter to myself (except for on this board). I asked why he wondered if I had done more research. "Well, Me and Bro. Otherelder have been talking and we feel like the Society is reversing their stand on college." This was a bold statement coming from this brother's mouth. He is very by-the-book, has a wonderful family, lives simply, and is quite prominent in our circuit. I played it cool and simply agreed that the lanuage was rather heavy at KM school. He looked stressed and discouraged. He said, "I never thought I would be deleted from my position as elder for something like this." I told him not too be too dramatic just yet. He replied, "You heard what they said. 'If an elder sends his child to college his position could be called into question!' We've been making plans for our kids to attend college for years now." This brother is a very hard worker but has never attended any schooling further than High School. His line of work has been affected by the economy and things have been difficult for some time now. He and his wife want to make sure that their kids don't have to carry the burden of struggling to make ends meet. He believes that in the long run, they will be better equipped to function spiritually if they don't have the anxiety of just scraping by hanging over their heads for most of their adult life. He continued, "Bro. Otherelder is concerned too. He was going to take some classes to get some specialized training so he can find better work." Bro. Otherelder is another faithful man in the congregation. Lately, he has been trying to assist in taking care of some ailing family members, which costs more money than he has right now. Now, he too is afraid to get the additional training he needs to help provide for his family. The CoBE said, "He and I have gone through the info in the WT library and we thought we were doing everything within the suggested boundaries. But at the KM school, they were making it sound like college should not be an option that an elder would consider for his family. They threw out these crazy statistics to try to back up their point but I don't care what anyone says; You can find, and keep, a better job if you have a degree." The more he spoke, the more freely I could speak. We agreed that the instruction at the KM school on college seemed unfair. We agreed that what was said at the school was not in accord with what the WT has put in print and distributed to the masses. I told him that if we were concerned, others are too and that time will tell if this matters is clarified. The thing that surprised me was, as much as this brother loves being an elder, he was willing to sacrifice his position for the sake of his family's well being. He was allowing himself to make an informed decision, independent of the controlling grip of the Society. I have always loved this brother but after this, my respect for him grew to a new level.